Huron Planning Board Minutes - subject to approval.
Regular Meeting 4 May 2009
Call to Order: Larry Lockwood called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Members present: Larry Lockwood, Joe Snyder, Chris Kenyon, Charles Boorgaard and Jack McGuire
Other Officials present: Dave Buisch - Councilmember and Roger Gallant - Building Inspector
Guests - Rod Prodonovich and Steve Guthrie
Correspondence
None
Approval of Minutes: Joe Snyder moved, seconded by Jack McGuire to accept the minutes of April 6, 2009 as written.
Old Business:
1. AT&T Cell Tower
Rod Prodonovich from Pyramid Network Services was there to speak on behalf of AT&T.
Joe asked who would own the tower.
Rod stated that SBA Towers would actually own the tower. He gave handouts of his presentation to those present. The proposal is to build a cell tower at 10000 Lummisville Road on property owned by John & Sheryl Ivanov. The land has been under lease for approximately 6 months. He said that the property was close to the center of the search ring that they had created. The proposal is for a tower that is 300 feet high. Rod had color graphics which showed the reception areas with and without the tower.
Joe asked if the primary coverage area was the Bay itself.
Rod replied that radio frequency engineering stated that it was to provide improved coverage at Sodus Point, Sodus Bay & surrounding areas. He said that they are currently working on improving service in smaller areas such as this. The property for the proposed tower is 688ft wide by 2,771ft deep, which is 42.85 acres. He had provided a map of the property in the handout. The proposed tower would be located in the center of the property about 1000ft off the road. The access road would be a 12ft drive hugging the west hedgerow. The compound will consist of a 60ft by 60ft fenced in area. The equipment is enclosed in an 11ft 6in by 20ft shelter. There is a backup generator. He shared that in the near future backup generators would be required. It will be a diesel generator that will test-run once a week for a half hour. It will have a 2-3 day capacity to keep the tower running in case of an emergency. The tower itself is a 300ft self-support tower. AT&T will be the primary carrier but the tower will be owned and operated by SBA. The tower will be available for collocations by additional carriers.
Joe asked what other sites had been looked at and said that would be part of the submittal the boards would be interested in. (Rod was not able to produce the information at this time.) He also asked what other existing towers had been considered.
Rod said that they had looked at the Verizon Tower which was close in distance but not in height. He said the first thing a company would do is look at existing structure, no one wants to build a tower if they don't have to. He said that they would have looked at anything within the search ring.
Joe said that if the other site is in South Sodus, South Sodus either has to cover all the way to Sodus Bay or this covers way beyond Sodus Bay over to South Sodus. He thought there would be some other options as far as using existing structures such as the Shaker Heights water tower or the Malt House or water tower in Sodus Point. Joe said that the board would expect Rod to show that these sites have been considered and the reasons why they won't work.
Rod said he was sure that they had been looked at. He said that his company took the search over from another company and he does have that information. He said that it would be in AT&T's best interest to collocate if possible. If the desired outcome cannot be achieved, however, then they look at building new.
Jack asked Rod why the existing would not be sufficient if they are sufficient for Verizon.
Rod replied that he didn't know exactly where the Verizon tower was located in the search ring, but if it was in there, it had been considered.
Joe said that they needed to submit something showing all existing communication facilities - AT&T and other carriers. The next question would be why they can't be used instead of building a new tower. He also feels that a height of 300ft is excessive. The law is 150ft so they will have to seek a variance. Joe asked if they had any visual studies.
Rod said he was waiting for the actual construction drawings. Then he would do a photo simulation at some point and show a visual study of what this will look like.
Joe wondered what the height was that would require the tower to be lit.
Rod said that anything above 200ft has to be lit.
Joe said that would be another item of concern to him, that a lit tower is not desirable to him.
Rod said that he understood and that shorter towers are easier and cheaper to build so they wouldn't choose to do this unless that was the only option for achieving the desired coverage.
Joe asked Roger if he knew how tall the Verizon tower was.
Roger said that it's 195ft and the Shaker tower is 90ft.
Rod asked if the one on Dutch St. is close to the proposed site.
Roger said that it was quite a distance away.
Jack thought it was about 6 miles.
Rod said that those were not located in the search ring.
Joe said that he lives on the Bay and is an AT&T customer and has been for a long time. He said once in a while the reception is a little spotty but for the most part it's fine.
Larry brought up concerns about the fall zone. He wanted to make sure that the tower would go in the center of the property so that if it fell it would stay on their property.
Rod assured him that it would.
Roger asked who would maintain the generator and how much fuel would be on site.
Rod said that the crew that maintains the tower would also maintain the generator. Rod will provide the specs on the generator as well as a sound study.
Joe wondered if they used propane at all.
Rod said that they use diesel.
Joe reviewed what the board would need from the company. He said that he would focus on the following:
- what other sites, what exists today, not just those owned by AT&T or SBA but all communication facilities or structures that could be used for communication facilities
- why 300ft, why not something less than 200ft so it doesn't have to be lit
Joe asked if they had done any drive tests.
Rod said that the data was all computer-generated but they could provide real live data through drive tests.
He said what's critical is to look at the different heights and what the propagation study is at the different heights.
Rod wondered if the proposed site was acceptable.
Joe remarked on the 300ft height again.
Rod said that if the board puts limits on the height, AT&T would have to look at the propagation study at that height and decide if it would be worth it to build the tower.
Roger suggested that we send a letter noting the things that the board wanted.
Joe and Jack said that if Rod used the regulations as a checklist, he should be well prepared; that a lot of time had been spent on putting the regulations together.
Rod said that his purpose for coming to the meeting was to talk to the board and get a feel for what their opinion of the overall project is.
Chris asked why a company would lease the land prior to coming to the board.
Joe and Dave Buisch both agreed that it was common practice to have the site leased before presenting a proposal.
2. Tax Issues for Townhouses and Condominiums.
Dave Scudder was not present. Joe had spoken with Dave and said that Dave was comfortable with the Assessor's office coming up with the recommendations to give to the Town Attorney.
3. Keyholing (Keyhole Development).
Larry had spoken with Brett DeRoo from the County and he had given him the Harbor Management Plan which contains a lot of statistics and information which might be needed depending on what the board decides to do about Keyholing. It gives the amount of boat traffic that the Bay can withstand, etc. Larry's impression was that the idea was for the three towns- Sodus, Sodus Point and Huron to be consistent on regulations, etc. (Jack agreed). If so, then Larry wondered if the Keyholing should be something taken on by the three towns together.
Joe asked what the status of the Harbor Management Plan was.
Dave Buisch said that he hadn't heard any more about it. It was presented to the Town Board but the board hadn't pursued anything further with it.
Dave said that the funding for the study came from the State and so the plan had been given to the State.
Joe said that he would like to look through it. He will take the copy of the plan for the month.
Jack said that he thought that there was a CD available and Chris added that there is also a website.
Larry said that he had handed out a website that was a guide to Keyhole Development. He said that there were some laws on the website. Jack had also sent a copy of a law out through email.
Charles said that as he read through it, he thought that as a town, we're kind of floundering about where we want to go as a community without a Master Plan. He said that all the Keyhole Development he saw had to do with water quality, what the people in the town wanted their town to look like; have a mandatory amount of frontal that has to stay natural, etc. It seems to him that you have to know what you want as a community before you can really discuss the Keyholing issue. He did get into some of the statistics. They have a certain amount of acres per boat, etc. He said that Canandaigua had just done a huge study on this. In figuring out the recreational carrying capacity of a body of water, you divide the area of the lake that is suitable for boating by the desired boating density. Then you would have the desired number of boats allowed. He said it is all very technical. Canandaigua had large town meetings to come up with what was desired by the community. He thought it might be appropriate to do a survey to find out what direction the town wants to go. Charles said that there are websites available that allow you to do surveys online. He knows that a Master Plan is an expensive undertaking. Charles also thought that the lack of a Planning Board early on had allowed Sodus Bay to develop to the point that it is today. He said that many of the communities that he read about that are dealing with Keyhole Development still have a lot of undeveloped waterfront area; the waterfront of Sodus Bay is pretty well established.
Chris agreed that there's nothing left.
Jack said that when you do try to make changes, you run into a brick wall. The Dock & Mooring law met strong opposition.
Charles feels that there are many forms of pollution that can affect the area including lights, noise, etc.
Larry said that most of the Keyhole Development that he had read about dealt with inland lakes.
Joe wondered where we currently stand on the bay.
Jack said that according to the Harbor Management Plan the Bay is underutilized.
Chris said that they took the survey for the Harbor Management Plan over a 4th of July holiday.
Joe said that if they were going to talk about Keyholing, then we should try to see if there is some kind of standard that is recognized to see how the Bay measures against that standard. From there we could see if Keyholing is a big concern.
Charles had some statistics from the Canandaigua 2008 Master Plan. Canandaigua is worried about Keyholing. The visual impact was important to them; they said a certain amount of vegetation should be retained to provide visual filters. They also said that if a Keyhole site exists, there should be a certain amount of vegetation along the sides of it. He said that another thing that he read pointed out that people move to the water for the view.
Larry suggested that the board needs to continue to learn more about Keyholing.
4. Recreational Trails.
Chris said he divided it into a couple of things that he could continue to work on. He had been working with Sue Smith on promoting a bike trail but sadly, she had passed away. He could continue to work with the County, but that was only on signing the trail on the existing roadways. He also had the price from Kevin Rooney to extend the shoulder to 5ft. only on one side of the road. The price would be $27,000 per mile, so a 10 mile loop would be $270,000. Chris said that there is just no money for a project that size.
Dave Buisch said that maybe there was some Stimulus money available for that.
Chris said that Oswego had gone after a lot of Stimulus money. He said that he would still like to work with that existing bike trail. He had contacted Trailworks but hadn't heard back from them. He asked Charles to talk to Seth Burgess about Huron's interest.
Charles said that he would contact him.
Roger asked if anyone was familiar with the trail in Weedsport on Route 31. He said it is an awesome trail and wondered how that was developed and where the funding came from.
Chris said he is willing to work with Trailworks on a trail. He could also follow through on getting the bike route signed and the promotion for that. He thinks that the Trailworks idea would be more exciting.
Dave Buisch wondered if any area corporations might be willing to sponsor any of this.
Chris said that if things progressed with Trailworks, then he could look into helping them with funding. He asked if there were any old Railroad beds in Huron.
Roger said that there is but it's a small access and not really usable.
Chris said that it doesn't have to be a RR bed but that's what they have been using.
Joe said he couldn't think of any Utility Right of Ways either. Joe also wondered if extending the shoulder could be added on to a road improvement project that is already planned by the Town. It would seem that it would be much less costly to add on to an existing road improvement project. Joe said that every year they do some road work and the question is whether it's possible to increase what is done to ultimately end up with more than you have.
Jack asked if it couldn't be worked out on the yearly transportation budget.
Dave Buisch said that if it is planned ahead, it would seem that it might work.
Chris said he would meet with Chuck Bush to see what was planned and what the cost would be to add on the proposed shoulder extension.
Joe thought that the Shaker Heights Property Owner's Association Newsletter had indicated that there were a lot of shoulder repairs to be done. Joe said that they need to keep in mind that the extended shoulder is not meant for highway trucks, etc. - it would be for bikes and joggers.
At this point, Larry asked if the guest had any questions.
Mr. Guthrie said that he would like to make a comment. He said that he thought Charles had some good points when he was discussing having the town decide where it wanted to go in the future. He said that the board seemed to be putting a lot of effort into the biking trail. He referred to the fact that he had wanted to make some improvements on his property on Crescent Beach but was stopped from doing so. He feels that there is a lot of stuff against boaters in this area. He said that the boaters are not trying to take over the town; they're just trying to have a comfortable recreation area where they grew up. He thinks it's important to look at some of the people who have been supporting the community for years and will be for years to come and thought Charles had some good points.
5. Amending burning law for controlled burn - Roger Gallant
Larry asked if the Town Board had done anything on the issue.
Dave Buisch said that they had backed off completely on controlled burning. Someone from the public made a comment to the Town Board about the property on Ridge Rd. They live across from the property and were concerned about the effect on their property which is a Historical site. He said the Town Board in general just backed off. The Supervisor was not at the meeting and the Deputy Supervisor made a statement that it probably was not the best way to go.
Larry said he knew that Supervisor Crane had spoken with the County Coordinator.
Dave Buisch said that she would be back for the next meeting and it would probably come up again.
Larry said that the County Coordinator was going to send him some information but he hadn't received it yet.
Chris asked where the town goes from here then with abandoned buildings.
Roger said that in some cases people have to settle for much less house when they replace one that burns because of the expense of removal.
Jack asked if it is part of an insurance policy to cover the removal.
Roger said that a lot of policies don't cover it.
Charles said that it is usually available but at additional expense.
Larry said that the State came out with the stricter regulations after some firefighter were killed in a controlled burn.
6. Outdoor Furnaces.
Dave Buisch said that the Town Attorney was going to clean up the language of the proposed regulations, but if he knows the board at all, there will be strong resistance. He said that the issue that was raised dealt primarily with the treatment of existing furnaces. The Town Board felt that the regulations were unreasonable - if someone had a furnace for 20 years and someone bought the lot next door and builds too close to the furnace, they may have to do something with their furnace.
Charles said that would mean that if someone owns land, they would be "handcuffed" because someone owns a furnace. To him, that means that the law is favoring one person and not the other. In his opinion, the proposed law addressed almost every situation.
Dave Buisch said that he agreed that the Planning Board had done a good job in addressing all the issues that were raised after the first go-around. He wondered how many furnaces actually exist in the town; if Roger was able to tell with the pictures.
Roger said that they are not registered and the pictometry doesn't allow him to distinguish furnaces from other objects.
Dave asked if there were many in the more densely populated areas around the water.
Roger answered that there may be a couple, but not any great amount. He stated that most of the existing ones are in A-5-A.
Joe said it doesn't matter what zone it is because they had taken all that out of the regulations.
Dave said that if most of them are in the A-5-A area, then they are in fairly open areas and maybe the Planning Board needs to think of another way to deal with the existing furnaces, like grandfathering and then saying that everything from a certain date on would need to conform. He feels that something needs to be done, that we need to get the law passed because if it doesn't pass and it starts to develop in the more densely populated areas, there could be a real problem.
Joe said that the person who has an existing furnace doesn't have to do anything if he doesn't have a complaint from a neighbor. If the furnace doesn't create a problem, there shouldn't be a complaint.
Charles said that if there was a complaint and we didn't have the law, it could be seen as a smoke nuisance. He said he didn't see where there could be an argument; he thought everything had been addressed.
Joe asked if the number was about 15 or so.
Roger said that he thought there may be around 50.
Joe asked if this had been a significant increase in the last 12 months.
Roger said that they are not new, he had probably only had one permit request for an outdoor furnace in the last 12 months. He said that the installers know that it is a permit item; some could be installed by the homeowner and he wouldn't know about it but that is less likely due to what's involved to install one.
Jack asked if putting a Woodburning stove in someone's home requires an inspection.
Roger said that it is a State law that they be inspected.
Jack wanted to know if there wasn't a law for the outdoor furnaces.
Roger said that with the outdoor furnace, as far as the State is concerned, the only thing that has to be inspected by the code official is how it goes through the wall - they check that and there is an electrical inspection.
Jack asked then if there were almost 50 out there that are not in compliance.
Roger said that some of the units have been there for 10 to 15 years.
Jack acknowledged that in that case, it would have been before the State law was enacted.
Chris asked Dave if dealing with the existing furnaces was the Town Board's only objection with the regulations.
Dave said that it was the only issue that he heard made reference to. He did say that one of the board members is opposed to any regulation.
Chris said that the template had come from the Town Board, the Planning Board worked it and worked it and sent it back to them.
Charles added that the manufacturers were where they got their information from and wondered how they could argue with the manufacturers.
Joe asked what the Town Attorney was doing with the regulations.
Dave said that he was just taking care of some language issues.
Jack asked if even after the language was changed, there will still be objections.
Dave stated that there is opposition to it and the question would be whether the opposition could convince the others on the board to side with them in a vote.
Charles wondered if the Town Board considered the negative health effects to the neighbors. It seems to him that the board is supposed to represent both sides, that this should not be a personal thing - the smoke is dangerous, it can cause micro fibers to go into the lungs.
Dave said that the issues had been discussed thoroughly by the Town Board. They understand why the Planning Board made the recommendations. They also understood the public's concerns and sent those issues back to the Planning Board with the request to consider those and redraft, which the Planning Board did. In his mind, it should go back to the Town Board and he doesn't see why it should be questioned to be passed.
New Business:
1. County Planning Board Monthly Report
Larry missed the last meeting but Steve Guthrie was present and shared with Larry that there was nothing of concern for the Town of Huron.
2. Roger received a letter from a resident of one of the Bay areas which he sent a copy of to the State and to the Town Attorney for comment. The resident has concerns over the outdoor fireplaces - recreational fire pits. Some people are placing them on or close to decks or very close to other structures. He said that the Department of State's response was that the code is very vague on recreational fires like this and that they can't stop "stupid." He had not heard from Alan yet. The resident's concern was safety.
Joe asked if the resident felt that the neighbor was burning in an unsafe manner or if it was an odor problem.
Roger said there were some concerns about odor because some trash is burned in it, which Roger said he could take care of.
Joe asked what the resident is concerned over.
Roger said that the resident thinks the campfires are too close to a deck. If that deck started on fire, it would endanger his structure. Roger said that this is the second season that he has been aware of a problem and that the resident has discussed it with the neighbor.
Joe asked if there was anything that does have a reasonable setback for that.
Roger said that when you get into commercial units, etc. then there are different rules; but with one and two family residences there's nothing. He said that in this particular area, the places are right on top of each other. Roger said that the only thing that could be done is to make a Town regulation.
Larry said that he thought the town of Greece has an ordinance that says the fire pits have to be screened in.
Chris said that they have become very popular and so it has become an issue.
Larry and Steve Guthrie both acknowledged that the fire companies get called for these issues. Steve said that the Chief may respond and the fire would be put out if it appears dangerous. If it becomes a difficult situation, law enforcement might be called.
Roger said that he had told the resident that he would make the board aware of the situation.
3. Joe asked about the status of the work to be done by the disposal company on Ridge Rd.
Roger responded that they were waiting for the contractor. Roger said the owner has had a rough time over the last couple of months. He said that the owner is aware of the issue and is going to take care of it.
Joe thought that the town had been patient and it was time to have something done. He thought that the owner should at least provide his plan for compliance to the board.
Roger said he would let him know.
4. Dave Buisch shared that there would be a special meeting being held on the 4th of June on wind energy. It is a presentation being done by LaBella. It will be on June 4th.at 7:00 PM at the Town Hall and the Planning Board is invited.
Jack shared that they will be answering questions that anyone may have.
5. Dave also shared that they would be starting the construction of the elevated court area on May 18th. During construction, the tables in the meeting hall will be moved to another side of the room for the meetings.
Adjournment: Chris Kenyon moved seconded by Jack McGuire to adjourn the meeting at 9:02 PM
Email communications
During the month of April the following emails were received:
4/1/09 - from Joe - revised proposed outdoor furnace regulations
4/7/09 - from Jack - Keyholing Legislation in Michigan
4/7/09 - from Jack - registering for regional workshop
4/9/09 - from Joe to Alan Knauf - Proposed Town of Huron outdoor furnace regulations with response from Alan on 4/10/09
4/14/09 - from Jack - Land Use in NY Conference
4/20/09 - from Joe to Alan - response to questions - Proposed Town of Huron outdoor furnace regulations
Respectfully submitted,
Kathy Grandjean, clerk
